My Rochus Misch Success and Forum Censorship

[Markd]

Recently I posted a success from Rochus Misch, who was a figure on the opposite side during WWII. Within an hour my post was gone. I contacted a moderator and this was the response I got.

"This site has been having some technical difficulties lately. It may have just been lost because Admin had to "reboot" the site, etc. If I were you, I would just re-post it.

Sorry if I wasn't of much help!"

I reposted my success and after 8 responses on my post saying, "what an amazing success" etc and one comment saying they would pass on getting his autograph. When I went on the next morning My post was once again gone. I then assumed a moderatordisagreed with the success and deleted it without probable cause other than they didn't like it. I contacted several moderators, a few members, and Admin and these were the responses I got.

"Are you serious?! Why in the world would they delete it? Cause it is not a celebrity that is in the headlines?
I don't like to talk about people, but this board has gotten out of hand, in my opinion. There are too many rules. In my eyes, many have lost site of what this is supposed to be about!
Oh! Don't get me started!"

"I am unsure. Sorry your topic was deleted. This will be brought up in the moderators forum."

"Yeah. I can't find the topic anymore. What's up with that???"

"I personally think that is insane. I don't understand why people have to so damn stubborn about things. The man was a part of an ACTUAL HISTORIC EVENT. There was a success from Saddam Hussein on here that was met with the same kind of attacks. Thank you so much for the address though. That would be a very exciting addition to my collection indeed."

Then I got these responses

"I looked in the logs and it says that Admin deleted it. I suggest that you ask him why he deleted"

"According to the moderators log, admin has deleted my post from the Mods forum, as well as your 2nd post too. I don't know why he would do that, so my suggestion is that you PM him."

Then from the great Admin himself

"Sorry, i had to lock your thread. We can not accept your feedback.

Fanmail "

I immediately replied to Admin's message asking why but I have yet to receive any explanation. I think this is absolutely ridiculous. The man is now 90 and has expressed his regret for the Holocaust. He even tried to get the government to erect a monument and plaque for a group of children who died as a result of the Holocaust. So I see it is now up to Admin to decide what autograph successes we are allowed to show others on the forum. I suppose that other people it is (or was before they passed away) "illegal" to post autographs from are: Kurt Waldheim former UN Secretary General (Nazi), Pope Benedict XVI (Nazi and member of the Hitler Youth), Mountaneer Heinrich Harrer (Nazi). I suppose others that we shouldn't be allowed to post successes from are: George W. Bush (Started two major wars), Senator Richard Byrd (Former recruiter and Chapter head of Ku Klux Klan). I could go on for hours of people who were involved in bad things but I think this post is already long enough, and I have made my point. I just don't think it is right for Admin and Moderators to delete posts they disagree with unless there is noticible concern with the success.

Good Collecting
Markd

[crystal815]

I've had a couple of my posts deleted too. Far less controversial than yours, too. I agree it's gotten way too ridiculous. I agree that there should be an amount of censorship on the forums but it definitely does go too far.
I couldn't even keep my avatar that said i was gay....go figure.

I'm sure this post will probably be deleted as well, seeing how political this place has become.

[Markd]

I have decided to start a petition to send to Admin. It will say We believe that posts should not be deleted until there is enough disagreement and discussion on the topic itself. Not just in the moderators forum. If you would like your name added please PM me.

[whosurdaddy]

“Those who cannot remember the past or refuse too are condemned to repeat it"
Whoever is deleting these posts should actually study their history and realize not all SS/german soldiers were bad. They were soldiers who did their job. A big factor here is at no time was Rochus Misch convicted of any war crimes and has lead his life in a positive way since the war. I guess all military autographs should be censored from this site.

[dgangel]

This is ridiculous, I have seen a success from Saddam Hussein on this site yet yours is being deleted? I'd like to see admins excuse for removing it..

[crystal815]

Another one bites the dust:
My response to a question about my Annette Funicello Success was deleted...for NO reason!! i didn't even say anything offensive!

[classictvguy]

I agree, I have been contemplating wrtiting to John Lenon's killer, who is now a devout Christian. If I get a success I don't want it to be deleted! I will definently sign the petition and agree 100%!!!!!

[Magikalz]

This is ridiculous, I have seen a success from Saddam Hussein on this site yet yours is being deleted? I'd like to see admins excuse for removing it..

Exactly what i was thinking.

I don't see why you're success will not be accepted when other controversial figures such as Saddam Hussein have been posted.

Sorry your topic was deleted, and i hope you get your point across on this one.

[TheCollector]

Hi guys

Oh what the heck . . . I'll put my two pennies worth in

I don't want this board to get hung up on political arguments. Somebody had to make a call on whether it was right to post a 'success' from one of the foremost individuals on the side of the Nazis in WW2.

The main problem I noticed from the original post is that markd listed it as "Hitler's right hand man". Not wholly accurate for a telephone operator/bodyguard, but inflamatory none the less!

You all know I won't mince my words (which often gets me in trouble!!) but somebody made the call, and on this occasion that somebody was Admin. This is his board ultimately, and as such he has to look at the 'bigger picture'. We have youngsters on here from 13 upwards, and it can be asked what kind of message are we passing onto our youth when we say that because time has passed, we can forget the attrocities of 1939/45.

I think the situation would have been different had the autograph been collected during the war as a historial item, but to actively seek it out this many years later . . . I'm not sure.

You have to look at it from the point of view of the person making the call.

Personally I lost people from my own family in both wars. Long after some of them came home - they still suffered from the effects of it. I can understand that certain people's autographs are of historical value, and this one certainly will be in the future. But I do question the motives behind wanting to have it in a personal collection.

Would I have deleted it? It would be a close call, maybe / maybe not. But in the scheme of things I can understand why Admin did.

On the other hand I would never choose to have something like that in my personal posession. In a museum, so that we may all learn from the mistakes of the past - definately. In my autograph album at home, never.

What you have to ask yourself is why this individual is notorious. And if your conscience can live with the answer - then I say go for it. But when your own kids look through your autograph collection in years to come and ask who this bloke is, and why you have his signature in your collection - will you be ready to explain? Our autograph collections include people we look up to, people who we admire. That is why my conscience has a problem with Rochus Misch.

History will be the judge of how we deal with the warmongers of our own time. All I can say is that I don't choose to have warmongers of old in my collection.

Ian :neutral:

[crystal815]

Still doesn't explain why THIS success was deleted, while other, more controversial, successes are not deleted.
If we deleted every post that could potentially be offensive, then there would be no more posts. Which looks like what this site is coming to anyway.