by MW1221 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:56 pm
jason1980s wrote:Your letter is terrific. It is sure to turn off the inexperienced but to the experienced, it is spot on. I was a lurker on the address portion for years until I could take no more of people not pointing out (b/c of not knowing) that secretarials were fake.
There's nothing more disappointing than the few people who wish to find out about the secs, only to have very little replies because either people don't know (thinking everything not PP, AP or stamp is authentic) or don't care (well, it WAS signed signed by someone they know).
People get defensive, especially on the internet. Sometimes language doesn't translate like it would in-person or on the phone. They think we are taking shots at their whole lives when it's really just a small portion. People also put too much emphasis on having an autograph. They make it seem like, if we cite their autograph is fake, their life is shattered and they have nothing left to live for. The great thing about this hobby is that life does go on. You live and you learn and your collection and your passion continues to grow. I've nearly given up on collection big time. The prices at shows, attitudes of some collectors and celebrities has turned me off. Sometimes I do think it's a silly hobby. BUT, a lot of things that have happened in the past few years, I've received because I collected autographs.
It does seem like it's no use saying anything anymore. Most people don't care and even as they grow up (if they are young), their attitudes won't change much. What's 100 % certain in life is death. Whether it's a celebrity or a collector, we all are going to die. And while that is certainly sad, another sad thing is that fake autographs will wind up in the hands of unsuspecting people. There are a lot of people who bought Charlton Heston secretarials, not knowing they were fake. People will be buying Dick Van Dyke secretarials in a few years. And when the collector passes, their family will see the autographs as an unwanted commodity and a way to make a little money. They'll be putting the secretarials on ebay, not knowing any better and most likely probably never even knowing what the word "secretarial" is.
The funniest thing is, everyone does a secretarial signature at one point!
The percentage is probably 99 % as to how many people have signed a birthday, Christmas, holiday card from several of their family members. I can't count how many cards I have signed "pop and gram" and it's only one of them doing the signing.
LAUGH FREAKING OUT LOUD!
I'm going to speak very frankly, as I always do.
My goal is not, nor has it ever been, to alienate newbies on this website or in this hobby in general.
That said, I think there are some members here who are incredibly serious about the hobby and others who like to think they are. Personally, I'm one who has devoted a large amount of time to providing help on this website, including compiling
this, now infamous, post. I've also spent time talking to celebrities about autograph collecting and helping them understand the difference between collectors and dealers, as well as helping those who don't quite grasp the point of the hobby understand it. In addition to all that, I've also written several papers and articles on collecting as well as my collection, and read numerous others. In that regard, cagneyfan is correct that I'm passionate on the subject, but sometimes its easier to let things self destruct, as this forum is going to. But that's another point entirely.
Back to what I was saying. Anyone who is truly serious about this hobby knows that fakes are a large part of it, and, though disappointing, are not cause to carry on or insult the celebrity. That's the easiest way to draw the distinction between the people who are serious and the people who just claim to be. Like in all endeavors, research is your friend if you're serious about this hobby, and this website is still an excellent research tool,
when used properly.
The problem, though, which I attribute to stupidity and entitlement, is that very few people use it properly anymore. Part of that is due to a power hungry
admin, who quit caring a long time ago, but a lot of it comes down to the individual members themselves.
"Request a Celebrity Address" is full of address requests for people who are in the database, because people feel too special to do their own searching. And other members, who feel they're doing a service to the community, do that searching for them! So the people just keep coming back and cluttering the forum with pointless requests.
"Collecting Help" might as well be changed to "Ask the same question about international postage that's been answered several times before", because that's all it is now.
Worst of all, though, is "Feedback". While at one time, it
was Feedback, now I'd advocate calling "Look what I got! Tell me how great it is! And other miscellaneous questions, because I don't want to click the 'Board Index' button."
The people responsible for that deserve, in my mind, alienation, because I don't have time to teach those who aren't willing to learn. And I know that they're not willing to learn, because if they were, they would've tried harder to get the answers before wasting everyone's time.
I used to try to help, but now, it's become pointless. As I've said, if you're intent upon
buying the Brooklyn Bridge, I might as well sell it to you, because you won't listen why I try to talk you out of it. At least if I'm the seller, I get the money.
People are going to do what they're going to do. I feel bad for the other collectors who lose money because they read the threads, but helping them is no longer worth the aggravation. The Feedback forum has turned into a case of "buyer beware", and, while it may seem like common sense should tell you not to believe
the random guy who says his brother is close friends with Channing Tatum and Tatum totally signs TTM,
the random poster who insists that, despite a misunderstanding of copyright law, Julie Andrews signs photos TTM through the address in the database, or
the poster who insists that the Michael Jordan TTMs are authentic, people will also believe that a
random stranger in Nigeria wants to send them money if they help out with something.
People will believe what they want to believe. No point in trying to use logic to talk them out of it.
[quote="jason1980s"]Your letter is terrific. It is sure to turn off the inexperienced but to the experienced, it is spot on. I was a lurker on the address portion for years until I could take no more of people not pointing out (b/c of not knowing) that secretarials were fake.
There's nothing more disappointing than the few people who wish to find out about the secs, only to have very little replies because either people don't know (thinking everything not PP, AP or stamp is authentic) or don't care (well, it [i]WAS[/i] signed signed by someone they know).
People get defensive, especially on the internet. Sometimes language doesn't translate like it would in-person or on the phone. They think we are taking shots at their whole lives when it's really just a small portion. People also put too much emphasis on having an autograph. They make it seem like, if we cite their autograph is fake, their life is shattered and they have nothing left to live for. The great thing about this hobby is that life does go on. You live and you learn and your collection and your passion continues to grow. I've nearly given up on collection big time. The prices at shows, attitudes of some collectors and celebrities has turned me off. Sometimes I do think it's a silly hobby. BUT, a lot of things that have happened in the past few years, I've received because I collected autographs.
It does seem like it's no use saying anything anymore. Most people don't care and even as they grow up (if they are young), their attitudes won't change much. What's 100 % certain in life is death. Whether it's a celebrity or a collector, we all are going to die. And while that is certainly sad, another sad thing is that fake autographs will wind up in the hands of unsuspecting people. There are a lot of people who bought Charlton Heston secretarials, not knowing they were fake. People will be buying Dick Van Dyke secretarials in a few years. And when the collector passes, their family will see the autographs as an unwanted commodity and a way to make a little money. They'll be putting the secretarials on ebay, not knowing any better and most likely probably never even knowing what the word "secretarial" is.
The funniest thing is, everyone does a secretarial signature at one point!
The percentage is probably 99 % as to how many people have signed a birthday, Christmas, holiday card from several of their family members. I can't count how many cards I have signed "pop and gram" and it's only one of them doing the signing.
LAUGH FREAKING OUT LOUD![/quote]
I'm going to speak very frankly, as I always do.
My goal is not, nor has it ever been, to alienate newbies on this website or in this hobby in general.
That said, I think there are some members here who are incredibly serious about the hobby and others who like to think they are. Personally, I'm one who has devoted a large amount of time to providing help on this website, including compiling [url=http://bit.ly/1jqQGh3]this, now infamous, post[/url]. I've also spent time talking to celebrities about autograph collecting and helping them understand the difference between collectors and dealers, as well as helping those who don't quite grasp the point of the hobby understand it. In addition to all that, I've also written several papers and articles on collecting as well as my collection, and read numerous others. In that regard, cagneyfan is correct that I'm passionate on the subject, but sometimes its easier to let things self destruct, as this forum is going to. But that's another point entirely.
Back to what I was saying. Anyone who is truly serious about this hobby knows that fakes are a large part of it, and, though disappointing, are not cause to carry on or insult the celebrity. That's the easiest way to draw the distinction between the people who are serious and the people who just claim to be. Like in all endeavors, research is your friend if you're serious about this hobby, and this website is still an excellent research tool, [b]when used properly.[/b]
The problem, though, which I attribute to stupidity and entitlement, is that very few people use it properly anymore. Part of that is due to a power hungry [b][color=#FF0000]admin[/color][/b], who quit caring a long time ago, but a lot of it comes down to the individual members themselves.
"Request a Celebrity Address" is full of address requests for people who are in the database, because people feel too special to do their own searching. And other members, who feel they're doing a service to the community, do that searching for them! So the people just keep coming back and cluttering the forum with pointless requests.
"Collecting Help" might as well be changed to "Ask the same question about international postage that's been answered several times before", because that's all it is now.
Worst of all, though, is "Feedback". While at one time, it [b]was[/b] Feedback, now I'd advocate calling "Look what I got! Tell me how great it is! And other miscellaneous questions, because I don't want to click the 'Board Index' button."
The people responsible for that deserve, in my mind, alienation, because I don't have time to teach those who aren't willing to learn. And I know that they're not willing to learn, because if they were, they would've tried harder to get the answers before wasting everyone's time.
I used to try to help, but now, it's become pointless. As I've said, if you're intent upon [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Bridge#Cultural_significance]buying the Brooklyn Bridge[/url][/b], I might as well sell it to you, because you won't listen why I try to talk you out of it. At least if I'm the seller, I get the money.
People are going to do what they're going to do. I feel bad for the other collectors who lose money because they read the threads, but helping them is no longer worth the aggravation. The Feedback forum has turned into a case of "buyer beware", and, while it may seem like common sense should tell you not to believe [b][url=http://www.fanmail.biz/mboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=320616]the random guy who says his brother is close friends with Channing Tatum and Tatum totally signs TTM[/url][/b], [b][url=http://www.fanmail.biz/mboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=320539]the random poster who insists that, despite a misunderstanding of copyright law, Julie Andrews signs photos TTM through the address in the database[/url][/b], or [b][url=http://www.fanmail.biz/mboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=320690]the poster who insists that the Michael Jordan TTMs are authentic[/url][/b], people will also believe that a [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/419_scams]random stranger in Nigeria wants to send them money if they help out with something[/url][/b].
People will believe what they want to believe. No point in trying to use logic to talk them out of it.
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